that lindsey graham knows full well, wayne lapierre knows full well, gayle trotter knows full well and sheldon whitehouse asked a question which lapierre ducked. if you talk to hard core members of the nra, they will admit, as senator whitehouse said, they will admit you don't need an ar-15 to defend your home or go hunting or go target shooting or anything else. they want those guns because the police have those guns. and they believe that they will have to fight the police, and they want to be as heavily armed as the police when that happens. that is the underlying philosophy. >> so they think in terms of a barricade situation where it's them against the law. >> absolutely. >> congresswoman, that is new. it used to be they would say we're sportsmen, we're hunters, and then they would say whatever, self-protection if you live in a tough neighborhood or whatever. now they openly say we have to fight the government. that's pretty close to insurrection time, isn't it? we have to be ready to fight the government? >> this is what we've been hearing for a couple months, to be very honest wi